What?? No Red, White and Blue Festie Thread
Aug 19 2008
#2
Read on ... all the links you need to read are here:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/08/407025.html
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/08/406886.html
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/08/406880.html
Never again!
Sep 3 2008
#3
Grauniad commenter:
Antifa's gift to the BNP - Rick Lyons - Wednesday September 03 2008
By fighting with police and scaring residents, the militant anti-fascists made the BNP seem the more reasonable group
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/sep/03/1
According to Guardian profile, Rick Lyons is 'crime correspondent' on the Daily Star Sunday newspaper.
Earlier article prior to fest: http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/07/405027.html
Sep 3 2008
#4
coomets section of grauniad article:
Quote:
Are people seriously saying that anybody voting for the BNP is a fascist. I'm pretty sure that the majority of people who vote for the BNP are decent people and don't hate anybody. If the BNP do manage to gain any type of power they will have to evolve to represent the people who vote for them.
oh my gosh
Sep 3 2008
#5
Rick Lyons wrote:
Hopefully Antifa's members now recognise that their approach was ineffective and counter-productive.
Rick Lyons wrote:
Assessed simply against their own aim - that of stopping the festival - the group's expedition to Derbyshire can only be seen as a complete failure.
+
=
????????????
Sep 4 2008
#6
Tacks wrote:
coomets section of grauniad article:Quote:
Are people seriously saying that anybody voting for the BNP is a fascist. I'm pretty sure that the majority of people who vote for the BNP are decent people and don't hate anybody. If the BNP do manage to gain any type of power they will have to evolve to represent the people who vote for them.oh my gosh
Day of RWB fest: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/aug/16/thefarright.roma
Quote:
The head of an ultra-right wing party which advocates a "final solution" for Roma in the Czech Republic is due to speak at the annual festival held by the British National party today. Petra Edelmannova, chair of the Czech National party, is booked to give a 25-minute speech at the BNP's Red White and Blue festival in the village of Denby in Derbyshire.[...]
Edelmannova's party recently announced it was working on a 150-page "study" called The Final Solution to the Gypsy Issue in the Czech Lands, which it said it would present as part of a 2010 general election campaign.
Although the title evokes the Nazi plan to eradicate Jews in wartime Germany, the party told Lidove Noviny, a national Czech newspaper, its aim is only to offer Roma voluntary relocation to land bought in India. [...]
Simon Darby, deputy leader of the BNP, said: "There is a Gypsy problem there. What's wrong with people who talk frankly about their problems?"
So bad luck if that kind of 'evolution' doesn't involve you still being around long enough to vote...
... fascists.
Link to AF report on RWB: http://www.afed.org.uk/res/resist105.html
Sep 4 2008
#7
little_brother wrote:
Link to AF report on RWB: http://www.afed.org.uk/res/resist105.html
teh AF wrote:
But the result is already clear. All the local papers are full of the news that the BNP is not wanted in the future, so anarchist direct action certainly showed its worth on the day.
Yep, a good way to put it.
teh AF wrote:
As a result a new Amber Valley ‘Stop the BNP’ has been formed. But from this point on it will be important not to let the trotskyists destroy all the good work of local campaigning with their bickering and competing for leadership.
Er. Thats not true is it? Trotskyists *were* the local campaign, along with anarchists in Notts Stop the BNP - who the AF know very well. And work with. You've bpoth got the same objective right now anyway, which is deal with the third consituent - the Labour Party and TU influenced people, and make aure a call for a vote doesn't come out of the group.
Quote:
Other leftists within Stop the BNP seemed more concerned with this Unite Against Fascism betrayal than actually stopping the BNP on the day.
Is that true? NSTBNP did exactly what they had planned or been allowed, a static picket. What were you suggesting they do? Those who wanted to take other action wpould have known it was there as an option. Unless you are saying the SP, AWL, and SWP were all so busy fighting each other they forgot to have the picket(s) they planned, what ur saying is just a swipe at 'the trots' with no basis.
Quote:
Unite Against Fascism (a front for Socialist Workers Party)
Not reeeeeeally. Its the front *backed* by the SWP, but not controlled to the extent of the ANL. It's shit for all whole world of its own reasons, being essentially the labour party's protest wing, with the support of the race industry, the tories, religious and racial groups - fucking anyone. It comes out with much worse statements than the ANL did.
Quote:
There must also be a much clearer message as to how much the Labour Party and the opposition have aided fascism with their ‘war on terror’ and anti-immigrant policies. We know this is translating into the reality of increased detention & deportation.
...and multiculturalism. Don't miss that one out. A blank cheque to the BNP from New Labour.
Sep 4 2008
#8
Noone says the trots were not part of, and are still very much part of, the Notts campaign (as have been anarchists, as article makes clear at the beginning), but the point is that when competing between leftist parties gets in the way of the task in hand it's a big problem and people just start walking away. SWP effectively pulled out locally to concentrate on Love Music Hate Racism event and UAF. That's a typical trot tactic - if you can't control a campaign, find another way to maximise influence and recruitment potential. Same old story. Also a static picket was never the only option until UAF negotiated with the cops over the later start time and token march, sidestepping the local campaign and effectively ruining any chance of stopping fash getting to the festival. So rather than speculate, it's best if you trust people on the ground in Notts to explain what has been happening locally.
There will be a follow-up 'conference' event on the 27th Sept so anyone is free to find out for themselves what the future of the local campaign might be: http://nobnpfestival.wordpress.com/
Sep 4 2008
#9
[edit]
not worth arguing about 
Sep 5 2008
#10
Antifa should ask for a right of reply and get an article on CiF...
Sep 5 2008
#11
Yeah they should, they let pretty much anyone have an article on there...
Sep 5 2008
#12
That's a fact! But does anyone here really care what some Star journo thinks? He's probably just trying to make a career move into more respectable journalism by showing off some liberal credentials. I wouldn't give it any time personally.
Sep 7 2008
#13
All sections of society and all that....antifa need to convene and discuss events for sure, but there are potential criminal proceedings to deal with.
My perception was the trots or at least the SWP was that they had behaved in a sectarian fashion.
Sep 8 2008
#14
little_brother wrote:
That's a fact! But does anyone here really care what some Star journo thinks?
well, someone must, having written this reply:
Sep 8 2008
#15
Cheers for link - someone else at least thinks it's a career move to cosier part of the Street of Shame... on second thoughts, Rick seems marginally better informed than you Tacks
SWP have def been the most sectarian in this campaign, probably trying desperately to regain some credibility (and membership dosh) after Respect debacle, but as we know all trots are capable of it depending on their relative strength and influence in a campaign. Sometimes they cooperate and appear less sectarian, sometimes not.
Example 1: Militant (now Socialist Party) in anti-Poll Tax campaign - no one else in Left would (officially) touch campaign after they launched the All Britain Fed which also aimed to sweep away any troublesome independent groups by setting up parallel groups that would affliate to the Fed or if that failed, tried to get the independents to affiliate by proposing it at every meeting until the opposition gave up (or happened to be away during the meeting where affiliation was finally pushed through).
Example 2: AWL (Workers Liberty) left Stop the War in a huff after arguments with everyone else over their Workers Aid for Kosova / Arm the KLA propaganda which (locally to me, at least) also involved them inviting speakers to an event at (Quaker) Friends Meeting House (of all places) who were calling for bombing of Yugoslavia even if AWL didn't actually ask for it themselves (which incidently is kind of repeating itself in their leader's recent 'discussion article' http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2008/07/28/discussion-article-what-if-israel-bombs-iran ). "We do not advocate an Israeli attack on Iran, nor will we endorse it or take political responsibility for it. But if the Israeli airforce attempts to stop Iran developing the capacity to wipe it out with a nuclear bomb, in the name of what alternative would we condemn Israel?" That one is keeping left press busy.
Its below: talking about the arrests.....